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Is there a relationship between N numbers and SBR? 
Jorge Gasteazoro  10:52 3 Mar 03 
Re: Is there a relationship between N numbers and SBR? 
Phil  17:56 3 Mar 03 
Re: Is there a relationship between N numbers and SBR? 
Jorge Gasteazoro  18:29 3 Mar 03 
flash and the btz system 
howard schwartz  9:03 2 Mar 03 
Re: flash and the btz system 
Phil  11:51 2 Mar 03 
BTZS Lite? Help! 
Phil  12:17 27 Feb 03 
Re: BTZS Lite? Help! 
Jorge Gasteazoro  20:49 27 Feb 03 
Ok, since you posted this here I will try to answer here. (sorry I did not get back to you sooner but you will see the reason in a few minutes).

Ok, since I got converted and have had the book AND the workbook sitting on my shelve for years I decided to do it the old fashion way. I am in te process of drawing my curves etc. But so far what I have noticed is a few things.

1) the curves are nice to have and see, but what people are really interested in are the EFS and ES. So a light version might include a watered down version of the program (winplotter) where people can plug in the values and get their EFSs and EFs. Forget the curves, they don't want to see them nor do they understand them. Sure is nice to understand, for example if I mess up in the developing I know I can go back to my curves and check for the ES that fits the given DR range, but this can be done with the program too...something sort of "input DR for the ES values" and the program would give the response without showing any curves based on the values entered done at the time of testing.

2) the densitometer and the problem people have getting the numbers.
A neat trick I learned is to have a black card or completely exposed and developed photo paper with 2 1/4 inch Punch holes. On one side you have a reference and on the other the "test" material. You will be surprised how close you can get doing it this way. Just place the "reference" under one hole and move it up and down until the same "tone" appears that equals that of the one under the "test" hole.Try it....
So the BTZS "lite" would include a "reference" reflection card with steps. Now a days this can be done by printing with the quadtones and six tones printing procedures, no need to make 2000 step cards. Using the same technique you can include a step wedge for the transmission evaluation.

I suppose rather than a BTZS "lite" I am thinking more of an updated workbook where people can spend and afternoon doing the paper and film test and plug in numbers. And they are ready to use the

3)Metering.
On page 71 of the second edition you have the steps on how to use the incident method. Now, you are going to think "this guy has got to be the laziest SOB in the world", but when I decided to give the BTZS a second chance I did not bother with the testing I thought "Ok, if the metering technique works, I will do the testing" So I just read the steps and sort of guessed on the EFS backed by my experience in the ZS. Granted those were educated guesses but I think the chapter on metering techniques should be included in the "lite" version. As you well know I was surprised at how easy and simple it was to arrive at good exposures. Since my exposures were so good I decided to read the book..lol...How much you want to bet many people are doing this? Of course, if they have no previous experience, they guess wrong and get bad negs and say...ah heck this does not work!

The moment people open the book and see all them curves, they go..."jeezz...this is way too complicated"...trust me on this, I was one of them. I now know it is not so, but I had to overcome my laziness.

So what would be the goal of a "lite" version or an updated workbook? Simply to get people up and running without too much testing or having to read a 200 page book.

SO what I propose has these advantages:

1) with the inclusion of "reference" material (step wedge and printed reflection card as well as the "black" card with two holes) people don't have to go out and hunt for a densitometer or convert a spot meter, than in itself is a mayor hurdle that has been overcome.

2) ready numbers to plug in and get "close enough" results. I realize that a reference reflection card will not have the same ES or better said the reflections densities will not be "exactly" the ones for photographic paper, but ( I hope you agree with me) we can be as close at 0.05 density units, which I think is negligible. The same goes for "eyeballing" transmission densities. I have gotten as close as 0.07 units....you gotta agree that less than 1/3 stop in error is close enough.

3) People can read the "lite" version or workbook within an afternoon, do the testing the same day and have the numbers to go out and photograph the next day....that cannot be said for the "real" book.

So what are the disadvantages.

1) Like I read somewhere, there is no such thing as a fool proof method, they keep making better fools! Some dummy will start putting the numbers the wrong way and get a right to left curve....So you might get inundated with e mails when it first comes out.

2) The part that worries you the most, people will not have a thorough understanding of the "whys" and "hows". But who cares? if they are getting good negatives and are happy in this blissfully ignorance who are we to force feed them understanding?

3) A new watered down version of the Win plotter would have to be developed that does not include all them gradient G, curves, etc comparisons. All you want is put in numbers and get the EFS and ES charts. Which in a way are the basis of the system, all the other things are just refinements of a very simple technique...

So in short...eh eh I can see you I know you are saying why didn't he just start here..lol..

Explain how to get EFS and ES by plugging numbers in the "new" win plotter. I suppose the program should have "set" values like 1.05 for silver paper and 1.4 for Azo or alt papers. I think these values are close enough.

Explain metering in steps, don't worry about the comparison and how meters work, they don't know, don't care.

Finally, the page before the last should be blank and the last one should read in big bold letters.

"Now that you are doing it, if you really want to understand get the BTZS X edition"














 
Re: BTZS Lite? Help! 
Phil  13:41 28 Feb 03 
Re: BTZS Lite? Help! 
Jorge Gasteazoro  15:16 1 Mar 03 
Re: BTZS Lite? Help! 
Robert S. Sfeir  13:55 30 Nov 03 


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